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is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Computer forensics discussion. Please ensure that your post is not better suited to one of the forums below (if it is, please post it there instead!)
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PaulSanderson
Senior Member
 

is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 07, 15 15:10

Slightly off topic but I thought I would ask the....

My wife is trying to sell a large very heavy item of furniture on GumTree.

A lady has contacted her saying she will take the item without seeing it (other than some nice pictures). She has said she will pay by paypal and send a courier after payment has cleared.

We went back to her and said that we would prefer a bank transfer

Sge then said she was housebound and could only use paypal and has offered to make the payment as a gift so we dont pay charges.

"housebound and can only use paypal" is ringing alarm bells as I cannot see why she cannot make a bank transfer as she is obviously able to use paypal. That said, I cannot see how we are not protected if we wait for payment to clear before we allow her to send a courier.

Any thoughts?
_________________
Paul Sanderson
SQLite Forensics Book
www.amazon.com/SQLite-...entries*=0

Forensic Toolkit for SQLite
sandersonforensics.com...for-SQLite 
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 07, 15 15:41

Looks too similar to this for my tastes:
www.paypal-community.c...uage=en-gb

Who is going to pay the courier according to the proposal?

The general case is:
help.gumtree.com/artic...ning-signs
You’ve been sent a payment for more than the asking price for your item.

A buyer, prospective tenant or even an employer will claim to have sent you a bank transfer, Paypal payment or cheque for more than the value of the items / rent / job. They’ll then ask for the surplus money to be returned to them or a third party. However, the Paypal payment email or bank transfer email would be fake and would have never credited your account or the cheque will end up bouncing and the payment will be deducted from your bank account.



jaclaz
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- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 


Last edited by jaclaz on Sep 07, 15 15:46; edited 1 time in total
 
  

PaulSanderson
Senior Member
 

Re: is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 07, 15 15:46

Thanks jaclaz - glad my something smells fishy instinct was right
_________________
Paul Sanderson
SQLite Forensics Book
www.amazon.com/SQLite-...entries*=0

Forensic Toolkit for SQLite
sandersonforensics.com...for-SQLite 
 
  

mscotgrove
Senior Member
 

Re: is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 08, 15 00:29

I sell software with payment through PayPal. 99% of time this is absolutely fine and handles payment throughout the world.

Occasionally there is a dispute. Sometimes I suspect that the software has done a one off job and the customer does not want to pay. PayPal then decide who is right or wrong, and sometimes (not always) withdraw the money, maybe a few weeks later. Another case recently was when a 'customer' stated that his card was used by a third party - again several weeks after the event.

Receiving money with PayPal does not mean you have been paid! Wait three months(?) until it cannot be reversed, or accept there is a risk.
_________________
Michael Cotgrove
www.cnwrecovery.com
www.goprorecovery.co.uk 
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 08, 15 14:37

- mscotgrove
I sell software with payment through PayPal. 99% of time this is absolutely fine and handles payment throughout the world.

Occasionally there is a dispute. Sometimes I suspect that the software has done a one off job and the customer does not want to pay. PayPal then decide who is right or wrong, and sometimes (not always) withdraw the money, maybe a few weeks later. Another case recently was when a 'customer' stated that his card was used by a third party - again several weeks after the event.

Receiving money with PayPal does not mean you have been paid! Wait three months(?) until it cannot be reversed, or accept there is a risk.


Yep :), the same happens with most credit/dept cards, but in this kind of scam Paypal does not have a "role" usually.

Typically the scammer will send the victim a fake e-mail (from Paypal) attesting the payment, then the victim pays real money (usually via money transfer or similar, which is "real money") to the pick agent or courier.
The swindle is only about the "courier fee", noone will ever come to your house and pick up the item.

In a similar version the payment is actually made through Paypal but with stolen credentials/access, but it is not the "usual" claim, where both the seller and buyer may have their reasons, the sold item is never delivered and the claim is not issued by the swindler, but by the real owner of the account and since there was no actual delivery of the goods, the claim will correctly end by restoring the payed amount to the user which access was compromised.

The whole point is that the transaction through "reliable" (or covered by insurance) channels is null (as nothing was sent or delivered) whilst the one that actually happened (sending the money to the "courier") has "no way back".

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 
 
  

Patrick4n6
Senior Member
 

Re: is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 09, 15 02:12

This scam is easy to avoid.

1. Don't accept a payment if it's greater than the outstanding amount.

2. Don't pay the courier's fee, make the customer do that.

Also, if I were shopping on-line, I would absolutely use credit cards or even pay-pal instead of a bank transfer. With the cards or pay-pal, there is a dispute mechanism if the vendor is bogus. With a bank transfer there is often no way to get your money back. If I were buying something online and the seller insisted on a bank transfer, I would find somewhere else to buy it.
_________________
Tony Patrick, B. Inf Tech, CFCE
www.patrickcomputerfor...s.com/blog
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jhup
Senior Member
 

Re: is there an opportunity for a scam here?

Post Posted: Sep 09, 15 23:27

Just read a write up on a scam that describes the over-payment piece.

The idea is that actual PayPal payment is never made but e-mails purporting to be from PayPal insist the refund must be made...  
 

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