±Forensic Focus Partners

Become an advertising partner

±Your Account


Username
Password

Forgotten password/username?

Site Members:

New Today: 0 Overall: 35520
New Yesterday: 1 Visitors: 146

±Follow Forensic Focus

Forensic Focus Facebook PageForensic Focus on TwitterForensic Focus LinkedIn GroupForensic Focus YouTube Channel

RSS feeds: News Forums Articles

±Latest Articles

±Latest Webinars

5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Discussion of forensic issues related to all types of mobile phones and underlying technologies (GSM, GPRS, UMTS/3G, HSDPA, LTE, Bluetooth etc.)
Subforums: Mobile Telephone Case Law
Reply to topicReply to topic Printer Friendly Page
Forum FAQSearchView unanswered posts
Page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next 
  

TinyBrain
Senior Member
 

5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 16, 19 23:14

Our team got an expert from outside to better understand 5G first to get access to the cryptographic layer. In these talks this expert recommended to deeper look into 5G NE-DC with a 5G NR as MCG and an E-UTRAN eNB as SCG. If a UE is in NE-DC mode the positioning by technical nature of this dual-connection becomes very accurate in the sub-meter range. This guy told us that if we have a 3D model of the geographical area it eaven would be possible to locate a UE with a single 5G NR in sub-meter range if we would follow the Single Anchor Positioning approach.

Same time he showed us how a Fake Base Station FBS of a 5G NR in MITM constellation can undermine any conclusion making of a location - which is obvious. As I by several posts on FF started is our approach of detecting a FBS by the crypto layer. This guy also reported that on Europol and Interpol no MBB experts really are so for me FF is the right platform to ask for help. Our board also recommended this to our team.

So, why are on FF passive observers-only to posters in a ratio of 99.5%? I know for sure there are MBB experts here, but nobody is hanging-in in helping to first understand the 5G MBB and then - my main job - to discover the crypto layer of 5G MBB to detect FBSs.

I am a cryptographer and cannot become an MBB expert to do my job. I - kindly - ask for real help. Not - read the whitepapers yourself. The complexity of 5G MBB seems to be out-of-range, like buffer overflow this expert told us. Unfortunately this expert is too busy to teach us.

Please, help our team to understand 5G for we can think on the crypto layer. Toda.  
 
  

TinyBrain
Senior Member
 

Re: 5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 18, 19 06:28

For law enforcement it should be of interest to find a trusted location of a suspect. Relying on unaware FBS will destroy your investigation. Am I wrong?  
 
  

armresl
Senior Member
 

Re: 5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 18, 19 07:49

I've been on here since 2004 I believe, and you are the only person that has ever asked questions like you are asking.
Trewte has an immense amount of knowledge, but you are just asking questions that this forum wasn't IMHO build for, so you are not going to receive answers and find that your posts mainly contain only your replies to your post.
_________________
Why order a taco when you can ask it politely?

Alan B. "A man can live a good life, be honorable, give to charity, but in the end, the number of people who come to his funeral is generally dependent on the weather. " 
 
  

jaclaz
Senior Member
 

Re: 5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 18, 19 08:36

- TinyBrain

So, why are on FF passive observers-only to posters in a ratio of 99.5%?


Maybe members of FF are by pure chance a statistically representative sample of the online world population where the ratio between lurkers and contributors is of the same order of magnitude.

jaclaz
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 
 
  

droopy
Senior Member
 

Re: 5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 18, 19 12:38

This is nothing new. Actually on LTE is the same, you could locate with less than 5 meters any phone just using 3-dimension enodeB. Moreover, if we could connect to carrier core, we have also 5 meters precision.

Location is always possible with better precision than GPS actually.  
 
  

trewmte
Senior Member
 

Re: 5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 18, 19 19:00

- TinyBrain
Our team got an expert from outside to better understand 5G first to get access to the cryptographic layer.


So what did your un-named 5G expert say to you, exactly, how you can "get access to the cryptographic layer."?
_________________
Institute for Digital Forensics (IDF) - www.linkedin.com/groups/2436720
Mobile Telephone Examination Board (MTEB) - www.linkedin.com/groups/141739
Universal Network Investigations - www.linkedin.com/groups/13536130
Mobile Telephone Evidence & Forensics trewmte.blogspot.com 
 
  

TinyBrain
Senior Member
 

Re: 5G Sub-Meter Positioning

Post Posted: Apr 19, 19 03:28

In general the cryptographic layer - as the layer of authentication and authorization related to security - only can be fully understood if you first understand the digital process. Related to 5G this guy warned about failing in having the full picture in theory would also fail in testing after if we dont fully and hardened understand the 5G positioning options as a whole.

We have to master the crypto of 5G positioning - so I first have to understand the 5G positioning.  
 

Page 1 of 4
Page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next