M.2 drives and CRU ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

M.2 drives and CRU Forensic Ultradock v5

15 Posts
4 Users
0 Likes
5,688 Views
(@fraudit)
Posts: 72
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

I've finally got the M.2 M-key to SATA adapter and connected the M.2 drive to my CRU Forensic Ultradock v5 (latest firmware).

Unfortunately the blocker is not detecting the drive connected. Looks like some compatibility problem, as when I turn on the blocker, the red LED next to the exclamation mark flashes briefly and then the drive is not recognized.

Both cable and adapter are working, as I tested them separately. The dock works as well, as it detects any other drive.

Possilby the problem lies with the drive - it's Samsung MVNe MZ-VLB1T00 unit present in many Lenovo models. I acutally have two of them and none gets recognized. I don't think it's relevant but both of them are BitLocker encrypted.

Since CRU offers its own adapter for M.2 drives for that dock, I guess that it's compatibile with M.2 drives (though it's quite old product). I've asked this question to support but still waiting for the answer.

Hence my question posted here does anyone have issues with such hardware combination? If so, were you able to resolve them? How?

 
Posted : 03/09/2019 9:30 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

Only a wild-wild guess, but could it be an issue with B vs. M (or B&M or viceversa, or the contrary of it) connectors?
Or a NGSFF? 😯
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2#NGSFF_(NF1)

Or any other (stupid) issue about non-standard standards?

There is at least a report of yet another non-standard interface (though that one is the opposite, reading a Samsung, but not a Toshiba)
https://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15806/

But that SAMSUNG SSD is (should be) NVME so it is (should be) PciE compatible and not SATA compatible, see specifically
https://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=6590297/#6590297

Or maybe it is a "strange beast" like this one
https://www.forensicfocus.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15577/

I love standards, there is so many of them …

jaclaz

 
Posted : 03/09/2019 3:06 pm
(@deefir)
Posts: 49
Eminent Member
 

Is it this unit?

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/sata-adapter-for-m-2-sata-ssds/

The unit shows a photo of an M key adapter. Does the unit work with any other Samsung NVMe drives?

If not, I suggest it would be a firmware or other device compatibility issues - perhaps with insufficient power being delivered to the flash controller.

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 5:31 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

Is it this unit?

https://www.cru-inc.com/products/wiebetech/sata-adapter-for-m-2-sata-ssds/

The unit shows a photo of an M key adapter. Does the unit work with any other Samsung NVMe drives?

If not, I suggest it would be a firmware or other device compatibility issues - perhaps with insufficient power being delivered to the flash controller.

If it is that one, it won't work for a NVME SSD, the description is clear enough;

SATA Adapter for M.2 SATA SSDs

In a nutshell
M.2 SATA to SATA = adapter
M.2 NVME to PCiE= adapter
M.2 NVME to SATA= converter

If you prefer
M.2 = form factor
NVME= Protocol =~ PCiE
PCiE = Protocol
SATA = Protocol

jaclaz

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 8:57 am
(@fraudit)
Posts: 72
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

It's actually weird that they list the M.2 adapter as the Forensic Dock v5 accessory…

I've got the support response and it IS compatibility issue. Here's what they wrote

The Forensic UltraDock only has a SATA contoller so it can only read SATA drives.
While NVMe connectors look very similar to SATA, our SATA docks are unable to communicate over the NVMe protocol.

At the same time if I used almost $100 converter from M.2 to SATA to connect it, I'd say it should work, don't you think so? The adapter electronics should convert the signals to the handable format…

This makes me think also the new generation of this dock (v5.5) won't be able to handle M.2 drives.

The support guy actually suggested I got their Ditto product that's able to process M.2 drives.

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 10:16 am
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

It's actually weird that they list the M.2 adapter as the Forensic Dock v5 accessory…

I've got the support response and it IS compatibility issue. Here's what they wrote

The Forensic UltraDock only has a SATA contoller so it can only read SATA drives.
While NVMe connectors look very similar to SATA, our SATA docks are unable to communicate over the NVMe protocol.

At the same time if I used almost $100 converter from M.2 to SATA to connect it, I'd say it should work, don't you think so? The adapter electronics should convert the signals to the handable format…

This makes me think also the new generation of this dock (v5.5) won't be able to handle M.2 drives.

The support guy actually suggested I got their Ditto product that's able to process M.2 drives.

Yep, that is EXACTLY what I posted till now.

Again, it is not an M.2 to SATA conversion issue, it is a NVME to SATA non-conversion issue.

But you can get a "normal" NVME (M.2 form factor) to USB 3.1 converter, example (US$ 55)

https://www.addonics.com/products/m2nvmu31.php

and treat it as if it was *any* USB 3.1 device.

Cheaper (US$ 30)
https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-0003-001D4?Description=m.2%20nvme%20to%20sata%20adapter&cm_re=m.2_nvme_to_sata_adapter-_-9SIA1DS91E7169-_-Product

At the same time if I used almost $100 converter from M.2 to SATA to connect it, I'd say it should work, don't you think so? The adapter electronics should convert the signals to the handable format…

WHICH converter? ?

AFAIK only NVME to U.2 (SFF-8639)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.2
converters exist.
So at the most it will be possible to do some sort of NVME to SATA Express
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA_Express
(which is not SATA).

jaclaz

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 12:03 pm
(@fraudit)
Posts: 72
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

But you can get a "normal" NVME (M.2 form factor) to USB 3.1 converter, example (US$ 55)

https://www.addonics.com/products/m2nvmu31.php

and treat it as if it was *any* USB 3.1 device.

This is what I eventually did, after first taking an urgent image with CAINE.

WHICH converter? ?

I've purchased the Delock converter SATA 22 pin / SFF-8643 NVMe > 1 x M.2 Key M, hoping it will do the job. Well, it didn't…

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 12:49 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

Well, it didn't…

Sure it didn't.

Confusing as it might be the whole stuff, the description of that DeLock is clear enough
https://www.delock.de/produkte/G_62703/merkmale.html?setLanguage=en

surely they might have highlighted the or

The converter can be installed into your system internally through the SATA 22 pin interface while using a SATA M.2 SSD,

or

via the SFF-8643 interface while using a PCIe M.2 SSD.

SF-8643 is yet another "standard", mini-SAS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Attached_SCSI

jaclaz

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 1:07 pm
(@fraudit)
Posts: 72
Trusted Member
Topic starter
 

Which as I understand means that I can connect either a regular mSATA drive via SATA cable or M.2 drive via the PCI cable, is that correct?

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 1:14 pm
jaclaz
(@jaclaz)
Posts: 5133
Illustrious Member
 

Which as I understand means that I can connect either a regular mSATA drive via SATA cable or M.2 drive via the PCI cable, is that correct?

Not really.
I have no idea of what you mean by PCI cable, they don't exist AFAIK, unless you mean a PCiE "riser" cable *like*
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16812183022?Description=pcie%20cable&cm_re=pcie_cable-_-12-183-022-_-Product

M.2 is a form factor.
mSATA is another form factor.
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.2

SATA is a protocol/interface.
PCI and PCiE (or NVME) are protocols/interfaces.

A SATA (protocol) SSD can have different form factors/connectors, among them there is the M.2 or NGFF.

A PCI or PciE (or NVME) SSD can have different form factors/connectors, among them there is the M.2 or NGFF.

So you can have BOTH
1) a SATA SSD M.2
AND
2) a PCI or PciE (NVME) SSD M.2
(and both will be - and here lays the worst instance of stupidity - be in the form of a M.2 keyed M) and if you remove (or ignore) the make/model/part number there is no way to distinguish the SATA one from the PciE one.

So, both will fit in a M.2 M keyed socket, BUT the first one still "speaks SATA" and the second still "speaks PciE".

Take this particular adapter as reference/example
https://www.addonics.com/products/ad25m2msa.php

this one allows to connect to a SATA bus either a mSATA or M.2 SATA SSD to a "normal" SATA cable (everything speaks SATA).

Now compare with this one
https://www.addonics.com/products/adm2nvmpx4.php

this one allows to connect one PCI or NVME M.2 SSD to a PCiE bus (everything speaks PCI/PCiE/NVME)

And finally compare with this one
https://www.addonics.com/products/ad2m2s-px4.php

this one allows connecting on one side 1 PCI or NVME M.2 SSD to a PCiE bus (everything speaks PCI/PCiE/NVME on this side) AND 1 or 2 SATA M.2 SSD to 2 "normal" SATA cables (everything speaks SATA on this other side).

It is "madness", I know.

jaclaz

 
Posted : 04/09/2019 3:17 pm
Page 1 / 2
Share: