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Mobile phone voice mail

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(@pbeardmore)
Posts: 289
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Topic starter
 

Just considering the legal and technical situation regarding mob phone voice mails. Presumably, from an evidential perspective, the network operator would be the first choice as the original is sitting on their system (either before it is picked up by the end user or saved).

And from a corporate investigation perspective, the company, rather than the employee, can request copies of these? (obviously, depending on the terms and conditions of contract etc)

Apologies if this has been covered before, mobiles are not my speciality, but all very interesting

 
Posted : 11/07/2008 8:18 pm
(@larrydaniel)
Posts: 229
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In the US we have clear guildelines via the ECPA about who can supoena what level of records from ISPs and Telecomms. I have no idea about the UK, but that sounds a lot like a pure legal question for counsel.

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 1:27 am
(@trewmte)
Posts: 1877
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I would plumb for the Operator, so I would agree with you Pat. However, it is worth noting, particularly with business users, or in cases of disputes often leading to harassment claims, that some users do record voice mails onto the handset, which may be all you get in cases where the operator deletes after a period of time.

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 2:02 am
neddy
(@neddy)
Posts: 182
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You cant touch voicemail if your not LE as far as I know. RIPA and Data Protection Act protect the individual from having their privacy invaded.

As far as I am aware, U.K. Police can do it if the device that can access the voicemail has been seized under PACE but even then only units of the LE agency with a licence to do so can access the voicemail and record it as evidence. Also, as far as I am aware, voicemail is deleted after 7 days by the network.

As far as I am aware, even the LE units accessing such data run the risk of being prosecuted by the Home Office but are protected by a memo of understanding given to them by the U.K. government. The same applies to forensic computer analysts who are tasked with investigating cases where IIOC are present.

I am no expert in data communication laws within the U.K. or anywhere but may advice is do NOT in any circumstance intercept someone elses voicemail!

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 2:45 am
(@trewmte)
Posts: 1877
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You cant touch voicemail if your not LE as far as I know. RIPA and Data Protection Act protect the individual from having their privacy invaded.

As far as I am aware, U.K. Police can do it if the device that can access the voicemail has been seized under PACE but even then only units of the LE agency with a licence to do so can access the voicemail and record it as evidence. Also, as far as I am aware, voicemail is deleted after 7 days by the network.

As far as I am aware, even the LE units accessing such data run the risk of being prosecuted by the Home Office but are protected by a memo of understanding given to them by the U.K. government. The same applies to forensic computer analysts who are tasked with investigating cases where IIOC are present.

I am no expert in data communication laws within the U.K. or anywhere but may advice is do NOT in any circumstance intercept someone elses voicemail!

Neddy you make some interesting points but the matter is not as clear cut as your comments seem to suggest (I apologise in advance just in case I have misunderstood what you are saying).

Some examples
1) RIPA and data protection may not be an issue in cases where the user has given consent
2) If the handset contains the voicemails then the *authorised* examiner can extract and harvest copies of voicemails
3) If the handset/SIM are owned by a company and the buisness pays the bills then a business *may* have access to voicemails; but might not be entitled to listen to personal voicemails - but that is a grey area because who will be responsible for determining what is personal voicemails and what is business - the operator or the company?

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 3:25 am
neddy
(@neddy)
Posts: 182
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trewmte

Thank you for your considered response and I am not at all offended by your observations on my post, indeed I hoped for such a reply.

I agree with the points you made and am curious about the legal minefield that would be presented if an employee had a company SIM card in his own personal handset. Could his or her employer have the right to data stored on the handset? I dont see why not, does anyone else?

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 4:04 am
(@trewmte)
Posts: 1877
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trewmte

Thank you for your considered response and I am not at all offended by your observations on my post, indeed I hoped for such a reply.

I agree with the points you made and am curious about the legal minefield that would be presented if an employee had a company SIM card in his own personal handset. Could his or her employer have the right to data stored on the handset? I dont see why not, does anyone else?

Neddy, I haven't got the case law to hand but there was a civil matter sometime back (sorry to be vague as to tiemscales) where an employee conducted work on his/her own home computer using a program provided by the company. To cut a long story short apparently where the employee, who was being investigated by the company, was requested to return all company data stored on the computer, the company were entitled to trawl through the employees own computer to ensure no (hidden or overlooked) data remained. Hence the principles

1) an employee should NEVER allow the use of their personal computers, handsets, SIM cards etc, where data can be stored, for business on behalf of their employers.

2) That the employer MUST provide said handset/SIM/computer with clear written instructions for use

It is worth reviewing The Telecommunications (Lawful Business Practice) Regulations 2000

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 12:21 pm
(@pbeardmore)
Posts: 289
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Topic starter
 

Many thanks for the replies,

re the situation in the UK, I think the wording on the document that the employee has signed (or not as the case maybe) would be crucial in establishing whether they have in fact given "consent" for this to happen.

it's clearly is a sensitive issue and one where the lawyers have to be confident in their situation before contacting the network

 
Posted : 12/07/2008 1:20 pm
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