±Forensic Focus Partners

Become an advertising partner

±Your Account


Username
Password

Forgotten password/username?

Site Members:

New Today: 1 Overall: 34825
New Yesterday: 11 Visitors: 180

±Follow Forensic Focus

Forensic Focus Facebook PageForensic Focus on TwitterForensic Focus LinkedIn GroupForensic Focus YouTube Channel

RSS feeds: News Forums Articles

±Latest Articles

±Latest Webinars

The rates of pay

Discussion of computer forensics employment and career issues.
Reply to topicReply to topic Printer Friendly Page
Forum FAQSearchView unanswered posts
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 10, 11, 12  Next 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:27 am

Appreciate all the replies, links and superb responses.

kiashi, very interesting, clear, apposite and constructive outlook on this matter.

patrick4n6, I read the .pdf document from your link (thanks). Why do public servants appear to be paid a higher travel allowance? My questions goes to the heart of the matter what travel arrangements (train/car/bike etc) do public servants use, that ordinary Aus witnesses do not, in order to be paid more?
_________________
Institute for Digital Forensics (IDF) - www.linkedin.com/groups/2436720
Mobile Telephone Examination Board (MTEB) - www.linkedin.com/groups/141739
Universal Network Investigations - www.linkedin.com/groups/13536130
Mobile Telephone Evidence & Forensics trewmte.blogspot.com 

trewmte
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:30 pm

I think I moved to the wrong Northern Hemisphere country Tony, I should have gone stateside instead! Either that or I go back to Aus and join the rest of the others in Federal Government! Haha oh well. Good on you for making good for yourself over there! Very Happy

Jaclaz, (love the upside down writing Wink ) as Tony said we were not paid above the odds in our LE jobs. My wage was at the basic university graduate level point for all public service workers within the entire State Government in Queensland. I would have been receiving the exact same wage if I'd stayed working for the Department of the Arts on the IT helpdesk where I had been previous to that.

I think a lot of it has to do with the economy of different countries, now I don't know the first thing about economics but even I can see the differences between the UK, US and Aus are quite vast. I think the general levels of salary in the UK are lower than in Aus, but then the cost of living is probably still that little bit lower in the UK (outside London certainly) and probably lower again in the US (on average).

Adam10541, That is interesting what you say about the gap that still exists for defence work at least in WA. I know the New South Wales Police outsourced their entire CF operation for a time some years ago, to I think it was KPMG but they brought it back in-house with a fancy new lab etc. etc. so I think there is also a lack of outsourced work in Aus which many of the smaller CF firms here in the UK rely on from the Police. Which is of course being squeezed and squeezed, particularly by Government austerity cuts as Jonathan mentioned before.

The corporate and civil litigation work definitely seems to be where the money is at but it still takes time to filter down to the front line analysts after it has lined the pockets of the directors, managers and salesmen etc.

trewmte, I can't see why public servants should get more travel allowance, they should just pay members of the public the same rate....strange! It's probably just a union thing, they would rather pay everyone less but the public sector union has fought for higher rates for public sector workers across the board, but they are not bound by those rules when paying other members of the public so they can just get away with paying them less.
_________________
_________________________________________
The only people who find what they are looking for
in life are the fault finders. 

kiashi
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:48 pm

- trewmte
Why do public servants appear to be paid a higher travel allowance? My questions goes to the heart of the matter what travel arrangements (train/car/bike etc) do public servants use, that ordinary Aus witnesses do not, in order to be paid more?


It was a surprise to me also. It's possible that the unions negotiated a higher travel allowance as part of the package, but there have been one or two negotiation cycles since I was a public servant.
_________________
Tony Patrick, B. Inf Tech, CFCE
www.patrickcomputerfor...s.com/blog
www.twitter.com/Patrick4n6 

Patrick4n6
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:21 pm

A NON-scoop, but possibly relevant for our US friends:
www.computer-forensics...aries.html
www.computer-forensics...s_pay.html
Also state by state:
www.computer-forensics...aries.html
(and each state has a breakdown for the main locations).
The data is not properly referenced (for time/date) but it seems like coming by using the relevant job offers on "job sites".
I would take them with more than a pinch of salt, but they are better than nothing.

jaclaz

P.s.:@kiashi, in case of need, the text was generated with this:
textmechanic.com/Rever...rator.html

I don't want to go OT Embarassed , but your note:
I think a lot of it has to do with the economy of different countries, now I don't know the first thing about economics but even I can see the differences between the UK, US and Aus are quite vast. I think the general levels of salary in the UK are lower than in Aus, but then the cost of living is probably still that little bit lower in the UK (outside London certainly) and probably lower again in the US (on average).

makes me wonder.
I stayed briefly in Brisbane (a loooong time ago) and at the time (talking of - please take a seat if you are standing) some 30 years ago and I had a feeling of a particularly "easy" and "low cost" place to live in, certainly cheaper than the UK (leaving London aside, that - I believe like New York, Milan and more generally "economic capitals") is not at all representative of the country when it comes to cost of living.
_________________
- In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. - 

jaclaz
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:55 am

Jaclaz, if only Brisbane was so cheap and easy to live in now, they used to call it "The big country town" but it is most definitely a city these days. The cost of living seems to have risen quite drammatically even since I left there five years ago. The other thing about Australia is that because the country so large but the population so small you are not going to find ANY computer forensics or other kinds of niche business or even large business (aside from mining) occuring outside of the capital cities in each state so that gives you a total of 8 locations you can find this work being done in the whole country! Here's a little population distribution map for you because I know you like figures Wink , quite interesting:
www.abs.gov.au/ausstat...ulation~49

Anyway, I've deviated off topic now, my apologies.
_________________
_________________________________________
The only people who find what they are looking for
in life are the fault finders. 

kiashi
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:51 pm

Cost of living in Brisbane...?!?! you are kidding aren't you?

With the exception of parking in the CBD Brisbane is cheap as chips, quite literally.

Perth is by far the most expensive place to live in Australia, but luckily we have the highest wages so it sort of evens out Smile  

Adam10541
Senior Member
 
 
  

Re: The rates of pay

Post Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:56 am

Good to see the Aussies adding to the knowledge bank.

I know we may need alot more info from around the global but I am wondering whether it would be useful and possible to produce a table of hourly fees/charges from a range of international sources for publication here at Forensic Focus? If so, we need more input from people in other countries.

Ignoring negative issues, e.g. how quickly it would be out of date, completeness and absolute accuracy etc, surely an at-a-glance comparison chart would be helpful to beginners and seasoned individuals alike?

There is a possibility that employer may use that as a guide. However, what I am also mulling over is the idea of actually identifying the variety of skillsets examiners can possess. By that I mean there are literally, in their tens, varieties of mobile phone investigations. Many examiners are taken on merely for data recovery and then find themselves exploited to provide addtional tasks from existing skillsets in the price (which the employer neither pays extra to him/her for that or avoids employing a further cost a person for the skillset).

I am not suggesting a layer cake approach to limiting employees work or their futures in a defined area or, alternatively, burdening companies with crippling debt. What I am suggesting is that the current method of tricking employees to provide additional skills without reward is unreasonable (leaving fairness to one side for the moment). To trick an employee to provide something and then when things go wrong to blame that employee cannot be right. Another trick I am seeing is to imply everything is on shifting sands, so one day it is (a) type of work and on another day it is (b) type of work; but there is not enough to reward the employee for the extra work. Well there is, but the extra goes elsewhere.

Two principles at the heart of this is "establishing worth" and "establishing value". Using a forumla may produce the answer; Jaclaz has illustrated a few in this forum discussion. However, a formula needs components to be identified at first instance in order to formulate the structure of the formula. So we need to consider those components in order that a pserson, at least, is enabled to negotiate (promote one's wares, so to speak).

Quite often we see "value" given by an employer by allowing days off in lieu for working on another day. That in itself is only dealing with existing revenue streams and company services. How "value" takes on a completely new meaning if new business is enticed into a business. Let's use the examples of SIM/handset data recovery but cell site analysis is added as a new business stream? The computer examiner/investigator adds network investigation as a business stream?

Both examples still mean the employee has brought something to the job without "worth" or "value" being given by the business to the employee. Not everything is about money or greed. I listened to Toni Morrison's (Nobel Prize Winner 1993) interview on BBC HardTalk. She mentioned, amongst other things, there is nothing wrong with being a 'capitalist' it is 'capitalistic greed' that is the problem. The mind immediately races to the thought of money. Capitalistic greed is worse than that though. It sucks out the "value" of a human being with little or no return to him or her.

Establishing rates of pay perhaps requires the word "pay" to combine worth and value to balance the books, maybe?
_________________
Institute for Digital Forensics (IDF) - www.linkedin.com/groups/2436720
Mobile Telephone Examination Board (MTEB) - www.linkedin.com/groups/141739
Universal Network Investigations - www.linkedin.com/groups/13536130
Mobile Telephone Evidence & Forensics trewmte.blogspot.com 

trewmte
Senior Member
 
 

Page 11 of 12
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 10, 11, 12  Next